Eternity In Hell Is Just Punishment

puremath

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Sinners that go to Hell do not stop sinning once they are there and then get punished for all eternity. In Hell, sinners CONTINUE TO SIN, continue to hate God, continue to hate Christ, continue to rebel against God etc so that the punishment never catches up to the sin. It is very important for you to understand these words. This explains why the punishment of going to Hell for all eternity fits the crime.
 

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MarkFL

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I know that video will go unwatched, but it is an excellent rebuttal to the utterly immoral notion of hell.

I don't hate any gods, because it is nonsensical to think someone can hate something in which they simply have no belief, but the notion that I would be tormented even temporarily because I can't believe claims made without evidence is completely appalling. The fact that religions like Christianity expect their followers to sacrifice their humanity to such an extent as to see this as somehow just is also utterly appalling.

Even if this could possibly be real, I could never worship a monster that is morally inferior to myself and everyone I know.
 

puremath

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I will watch the video. Trust me, ok. I just need to find time. You have no idea what I am currently going through at home and at the job. By this I do not mean you have no problems of your own. I promise to watch the video. You may be right about the lack of evidence concerning God and the supernatural. I will not might but will watch the video.
 

puremath

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I just finished watching the video clip. I saw the entire clip. Very interesting and easy to accept for someone NOT FIRMLY PLANTED in the truth of the Bible. There are reasons why the punishment of hell is just.

Wish I had time to share all the LOGICAL reasons why Jesus taught more about hell than heaven. Of course, every religion has their own version of punishment in the afterlife. I can only say this in upper case letters:

BELIEVE AND ACCEPT WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY. IF BELIEVING IN JESUS, SALVATION, HEAVEN AND REUNITING WITH LOVED IN THE PARADISE OF GOD MAKES ME HAPPY, SO BE IT. IF YOU DECIDED LONG AGO THAT EVIDENCE IS NEEDED TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF GOD, THEN SO BE IT.

I watched your video clip. Will you watch the sermon below from start to finish? Come on Mark, you can watch Dr. MacArthur, right? He will not convince you to accept the reality of eternity without God. You are not afraid of the truth of Scripture. So, please watch the sermon. Get back to me in a few days.

John Macarthur - The truth about Hell - Wretched
 

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I just wanted you to hear the reasoning I also use, from someone else, someone who was training to be in the ministry, an ex-Navy man, who found he had no valid reason to accept the religion of Christianity, the religion in which he was raised, or any faith based belief system.

I don't accept and believe things based on what makes me happy, but rather based on sound epistemology. Doing otherwise is just irrational. You keep speaking of the truth of this and the reality of that, which are positive claims on your part. Where is the evidence backing these claims? Without evidence to back them, extraordinary claims should be rejected, if we are truly seeking the truth.
 

puremath

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I just wanted you to hear the reasoning I also use, from someone else, someone who was training to be in the ministry, an ex-Navy man, who found he had no valid reason to accept the religion of Christianity, the religion in which he was raised, or any faith based belief system.

I don't accept and believe things based on what makes me happy, but rather based on sound epistemology. Doing otherwise is just irrational. You keep speaking of the truth of this and the reality of that, which are positive claims on your part. Where is the evidence backing these claims? Without evidence to back them, extraordinary claims should be rejected, if we are truly seeking the truth.
Well-said. I tell you this: I pray for God to show you in some way or another that He is real. One thing I must say is the fact that ALL RELIGIONS talk about an afterlife. This is true.

Who is right? Jesus said He is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE but I have never met Him in person. Faith is the backbone of Christianity. I cannot speak for religions outside the Christian view. Perhaps you are right and maybe not.

You see, it does not hurt me or others to believe there is life after death. If there is not, terrific. We simply go into oblivion. However, if we somehow survive death in a non-physical form and the gospel story is true, I do not want to die in my sins. I want to be forgiven in this life for there are no second chances for salvation on the other side of the grave, according to Christianity, of course.
 

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I have heard many times, why not just let people believe what they want? It's not hurting anything. But the truth is, it can and does hurt others. Check this video for why religions should matter to atheists (please pardon the music)



 

puremath

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I have heard many times, why not just let people believe what they want? It's not hurting anything. But the truth is, it can and does hurt others. Check this video for why religions should matter to atheists (please pardon the music)



I will check it out when time allows and reply. Gotta get some sleep now. Going back to work tonight. While waiting for my reply on this video clip, read the following words by Bill and Gloria Gaither. It is one of my favorite Bill Gaither Trio songs.

I believe, help Thou my unbelief.
I'd take the finite risk of trusting as a child. I believe, help Thou my unbelief. I walk into the unknown trusting all the while.

I long so much to feel the warmth that others seem to know but should I never feel a thing I claim Him even so. I believe, help Thou my unbelief. I walk into the unknown trusting all the while.

Bill & Gloria Gaither
 

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I will check it out when time allows and reply.
It's only a few minutes long, but speaks on why atheists, at least in the U.S., should be and are concerned over the harm religiosity causes to our society. The religious are rarely content to keep their own bad beliefs to themselves. What I mean by "bad beliefs" is any belief that has been obtained through bad epistemology. People claiming knowledge when all they have is belief. You are entitled to your own beliefs, but not to your own facts. If you can't show it, you don't actually know it.
 

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I think it extremely sad, and morally repugnant, that a religion would ask its followers to believe that "punishing" the skeptical, the intellectually honest among us, those of us who practice good epistemology because we actually care about what is true, with eternal torment, as a "just punishment." To think of that as a just punishment when no crime has been committed, means you have sacrificed your humanity in the name of your religion. It is without a doubt the greatest crime that has ever been committed against our humanity.

I can think of no crime, no matter how horrific, that warrants eternal torment, if that's actually what the Bible says, because there is a lot of debate about it, and the actual details in scripture are few and far between. It is criminal to fill young minds with the fear of an angry monster who can damn them to eternal torment for something over which they have no control. We cannot pick and choose what we are to believe. I cannot choose to believe in something for which there is no evidence, even if I wanted to (which I don't...I want my beliefs to comport with reality as closely as possible, and faith is definitely not the way to get there). I can assure you though, even if I could throw good epistemology out the window and believe whatever wild tale I wanted, I certainly would not choose Christianity. It is far too horrible to even consider.
 

puremath

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It's only a few minutes long, but speaks on why atheists, at least in the U.S., should be and are concerned over the harm religiosity causes to our society. The religious are rarely content to keep their own bad beliefs to themselves. What I mean by "bad beliefs" is any belief that has been obtained through bad epistemology. People claiming knowledge when all they have is belief. You are entitled to your own beliefs, but not to your own facts. If you can't show it, you don't actually know it.
I can only speak for Christianity. Jesus commanded His followers to preach the gospel (good news) to every creature (of course, not including animals). This is why, Mark, Christians preach the gospel or good news.

It is the duty of every child of God to present the opportunity for others to repent before they die. The modern day church (not all) does not care about saving souls. The church has become a money factory, a billion dollar pie. This is the reason why I stay far away from church and spurious gospel of prosperity preachers.
 

puremath

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I think it extremely sad, and morally repugnant, that a religion would ask its followers to believe that "punishing" the skeptical, the intellectually honest among us, those of us who practice good epistemology because we actually care about what is true, with eternal torment, as a "just punishment." To think of that as a just punishment when no crime has been committed, means you have sacrificed your humanity in the name of your religion. It is without a doubt the greatest crime that has ever been committed against our humanity.

I can think of no crime, no matter how horrific, that warrants eternal torment, if that's actually what the Bible says, because there is a lot of debate about it, and the actual details in scripture are few and far between. It is criminal to fill young minds with the fear of an angry monster who can damn them to eternal torment for something over which they have no control. We cannot pick and choose what we are to believe. I cannot choose to believe in something for which there is no evidence, even if I wanted to (which I don't...I want my beliefs to comport with reality as closely as possible, and faith is definitely not the way to get there). I can assure you though, even if I could throw good epistemology out the window and believe whatever wild tale I wanted, I certainly would not choose Christianity. It is far too horrible to even consider.
1. We are all born in sin.

2. The Son of God (God in human form) came to earth to pay for our sins by shedding His blood on the cross.

3. The sinless Jesus paid our sin debt in full by allowing sinful humanity to nail Him to a cross in open shame and extreme agony.

4. Rejecting this great sacrifice is a SLAP TO THE FACE OF GOD. It is basically telling God GO TO HELL! I do not care that Jesus died an an insane death to keep me from eternal punishment. This rejection of THE GREAT SACRIFICE merits eternal separation from God and His heavenly home.

5. It is a HUGE CRIME to disregard the love demonstrated by God on the cross. Basically, rejecting the death of Jesus as full payment for our sins is telling God that we do not care in the least concerning His plan of salvation. It is telling God the following: HEY GOD, I DO NOT CARE THAT JESUS CAME TO EARTH TO DIE ON THE CROSS IN MY PLACE. I DID NOT ASK HIM TO DIE FOR ME. THUS, THIS IS JESUS' PROBLEM NOT MINE.

Mark, to a HOLY GOD, there is no greater crime, no greater insult than to reject what Jesus came down to do, to accomplish what was written in the Old Testament for the Messiah to complete, step by step in total perfection. This merits eternal separation.
 

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I can only speak for Christianity. Jesus commanded His followers to preach the gospel (good news) to every creature (of course, not including animals). This is why, Mark, Christians preach the gospel or good news.
Yes, recall I was indoctrinated as a child, so I understand the tenets of Christianity very well. I will object though when I see it intruding into places it has no place, like the government, or science classrooms.

1. We are all born in sin.
We are? Where's the evidence for this. There is none, this is just a baseless assertion. Your religion posits that we are sick and in need of this magical fix. I reject it...I was not born in sin. I don't even recognize sin as even existing. You have to show me your magical anthropomorphic immortal exists first.

2. The Son of God (God in human form) came to earth to pay for our sins by shedding His blood on the cross.

3. The sinless Jesus paid our sin debt in full by allowing sinful humanity to nail Him to a cross in open shame and extreme agony.

4. Rejecting this great sacrifice is a SLAP TO THE FACE OF GOD. It is basically telling God GO TO HELL! I do not care that Jesus died an an insane death to keep me from eternal punishment. This rejection of THE GREAT SACRIFICE merits eternal separation from God and His heavenly home.

5. It is a HUGE CRIME to disregard the love demonstrated by God on the cross. Basically, rejecting the death of Jesus as full payment for our sins is telling God that we do not care in the least concerning His plan of salvation. It is telling God the following: HEY GOD, I DO NOT CARE THAT JESUS CAME TO EARTH TO DIE ON THE CROSS IN MY PLACE. I DID NOT ASK HIM TO DIE FOR ME. THUS, THIS IS JESUS' PROBLEM NOT MINE.

Mark, to a HOLY GOD, there is no greater crime, no greater insult than to reject what Jesus came down to do, to accomplish what was written in the Old Testament for the Messiah to complete, step by step in total perfection. This merits eternal separation.
These are all baseless assertions. The bottom line remains...your religion has convinced you that rejecting baseless assertions is a crime worthy of eternal damnation. If intellectual honesty is a crime, I proudly stand so accused. You don't have anything to say about that? You think it is a just punishment for me to burn forever solely because I reject claims made without evidence? I want to hear you explicitly say I deserve to burn forever. It's not going to bother me because I have no fear of this angry imaginary monster, but I want you to say that I and everyone who values truth and good epistemology deserves to burn forever. Own the malignant amorality of your beliefs and proclaim it a just punishment and that I am deserving of eternal torment.
 

puremath

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Yes, recall I was indoctrinated as a child, so I understand the tenets of Christianity very well. I will object though when I see it intruding into places it has no place, like the government, or science classrooms.

I agree. Keep the Bible in the church.

We are? Where's the evidence for this. There is none, this is just a baseless assertion. Your religion posits that we are sick and in need of this magical fix. I reject it...I was not born in sin. I don't even recognize sin as even existing. You have to show me your magical anthropomorphic immortal exists first.

In the Bible we read that without faith it is impossible to believe in God. It is not based on scientific evidence. Jesus said blessed are those who have not seen Him and yet believe. Why doesn't He just appear to us? You need to ask the Lord this question.

When my mother was a child (age 9, I think), she said a man dressed in white and shinning brighter that any light she has ever seen, entered her room. The figure looked like the common pictures of Jesus we see in paintings and dressed like someone from Jesus' era. In fear, my mother hid under the bed sheets.

The man spoke and said: DO NOT FEAR. I AM IS HERE. He then disappeared. In the Bible, I AM is one of the names for God. When questioned by the high priest Caisphas concerning His diety, Jesus said: I AM. AND YOU SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE POWER OF GOD AND COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.

These are all baseless assertions. The bottom line remains...your religion has convinced you that rejecting baseless assertions is a crime worthy of eternal damnation. If intellectual honesty is a crime, I proudly stand so accused. You don't have anything to say about that? You think it is a just punishment for me to burn forever solely because I reject claims made without evidence? I want to hear you explicitly say I deserve to burn forever. It's not going to bother me because I have no fear of this angry imaginary monster, but I want you to say that I and everyone who values truth and good epistemology deserves to burn forever. Own the malignant amorality of your beliefs and proclaim it a just punishment and that I am deserving of eternal torment.
1. I did not make the rules.

2. We are all guilty in the eyes of a HOLY GOD and deserving of eternal punishment, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE NOT GUIDO.

3. You are taking this personal. I deserve to be punished for my sins too but God gives us a chance to escape Hell and later in the sentencing the lake of fire by simply accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. The choice is ours to make.

4. God does not throw anyone in Hell. We end up there based on rejection of His death on the cross.

5. Roman history books (not just the Bible) talk about Jesus who was a good man but found guilty of blasphemy by the Jewish authorities. He was condemned to death by crucifixion. We know that books written around the time of Jesus talked about Him and the cross. This tells me that Jesus actually existed.

Note: WE ALL DESERVE HELL AND ETERNAL SEPARATION FROM GOD AND ALL THAT IS GOOD. Look all around you. God made a perfect world. Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden and thus brought the curse of sin upon the entire human race and nature as well. Again, I did not make the rules. Do I think it's right to send souls into a fiery lake forever and forever? No, I do not but again, God is the big boss. He makes the rules.
 

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The "we are all damaged goods and deserve to be tormented eternally" mindset is certainly not for me, and it saddens me that so many carry this unnecessary baggage.. I actually value humanity. People should be judged according to their actions, on how they treat their fellow man, rather than automatically guilty because of some action of two people given in mythology. Luckily, none of this is evidently true. But, I am glad to hear, which I already suspected, that you are morally superior to the monster you think makes some really horrible rules,.
 

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The title of this thread is "Eternity In Hell Is Just Punishment." But then you say "Do I think it's right to send souls into a fiery lake forever and forever? No, I do not..." These statements are contradictory, and is a telltale sign of your own morality being superior to that of the religion to which you subscribe, and to the loss of humanity your religion demands of you. You are better than your religion, I doubt very many people who claim to be Christian (or any religion having a hell) really feel deep down that this is a morally tenable position. Very few likely actually think about it sufficiently, obviously.

Your god is like a thug demanding payment for protection from what he will do to you if you do not pay for protection, where the payment is utterly impossible for the intellectually honest to make. I don't choose not to believe in the face of evidence, I simply cannot believe because of the lack of evidence. I cannot will myself to believe something when there is absolutely no reason to do so. Religiosity is something humanity will do very well to finally discard. Until then we will continue to deal with the damage it causes us on so many levels.
 

puremath

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The "we are all damaged goods and deserve to be tormented eternally" mindset is certainly not for me, and it saddens me that so many carry this unnecessary baggage.. I actually value humanity. People should be judged according to their actions, on how they treat their fellow man, rather than automatically guilty because of some action of two people given in mythology. Luckily, none of this is evidently true. But, I am glad to hear, which I already suspected, that you are morally superior to the monster you think makes some really horrible rules,.
I am beginning to question many books in the Bible as just stories and maybe not historical events. There are lots of questions that should have an answer but do not.
 

puremath

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The title of this thread is "Eternity In Hell Is Just Punishment." But then you say "Do I think it's right to send souls into a fiery lake forever and forever? No, I do not..." These statements are contradictory, and is a telltale sign of your own morality being superior to that of the religion to which you subscribe, and to the loss of humanity your religion demands of you. You are better than your religion, I doubt very many people who claim to be Christian (or any religion having a hell) really feel deep down that this is a morally tenable position. Very few likely actually think about it sufficiently, obviously.

Your god is like a thug demanding payment for protection from what he will do to you if you do not pay for protection, where the payment is utterly impossible for the intellectually honest to make. I don't choose not to believe in the face of evidence, I simply cannot believe because of the lack of evidence. I cannot will myself to believe something when there is absolutely no reason to do so. Religiosity is something humanity will do very well to finally discard. Until then we will continue to deal with the damage it causes us on so many levels.
At least, I am willing to hear your side of the story. Most Christians run away from science and thinkers. I want, desire, yearn for the truth. I dive into debates seeking truth. My mother is a classic example of someone who could not have a chat with you without getting offended. I grew up in the church, a Christian home but this does not mean that I will disrespect and put aside your ideas on the subject. I totally understand your side in terms of needed evidence.
 

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Yeah, people will look me in the face and tell me I deserve eternal damnation because I have good epistemology, yet be offended because I am a godless heathen. Go figure.